tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post6601501991043648950..comments2023-07-30T08:37:02.307-07:00Comments on The Leibowitz Society: DownshiftingLeibowitz Societyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-67826858903287890712012-11-01T17:47:10.682-07:002012-11-01T17:47:10.682-07:00Spot on with this write-up, I absolutely believe t...Spot on with this write-up, I absolutely believe that <br />this amazing site needs much more attention. I'll probably be back again to read through more, thanks for the info!<br /><i>my webpage</i>: <b><a href="http://wiiunlock.org/?p=160" rel="nofollow">federal firearms license</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-71150253651145160692012-07-13T21:52:33.412-07:002012-07-13T21:52:33.412-07:00sharon
Propane heaters and stoves? Battery run g...sharon <br /><br />Propane heaters and stoves? Battery run gear (not even rechargeable)?<br />That's your achilles heel.<br /><br />How long will your propane & batteries last, and then what? Do you have a 20 year supply of candles? A wood stove and access to wood. An outdoor solar oven perhaps?<br /><br />I say this not to alarm you but the fact is, about no one is able is live as a 9th (or even 18th) century person.<br /><br />No worries, chances are that the collapse will be gradual. Prepare best as you can, hope for the best.<br /><br />Life goes on regardless. Anyway, it's not like our individual timeframe is more than 80-90 years ... at the very most.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-40447630257119269182012-07-13T11:14:36.421-07:002012-07-13T11:14:36.421-07:00I see your points about England to a degree. Howev...I see your points about England to a degree. However living in Wales( the bumpy bit on the left hand side of England) the one thing that worries us enough leave the country( we are emigrating to new Zealand) is the simple fact that the UK cannot feed itself. The cities are so densely populated that without an oil based economy it will be impossible to transport enough food in even if we could grow it. This means by the second week or so of no oil the cities will empty. Wales has a very low population but we a barely a few days walk from some of the UKs largest cities. Birmingham alone contains more people that the whole of Wales. I have a woodland business and my brother is a farmer. We are prime targets for the walking dead as we call them( within a few months they will all be corpses). Even though as firearms license holder we are heavily armed by UK standards we would need an army to fend them off. We have bought a farm and are in the process of buying 900 acres of woodlands in the north part of south island. Even with the earthquakes the low population makes it very attractive. Not to mention high gun ownership, tons of wild game and best of all a poor road and train network. We already have family in the area and are trying to get the sale of my business completed asap. Fingers crossed the big euro collapse will hold off another couple of months!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-65440490493920708962012-07-11T16:57:30.092-07:002012-07-11T16:57:30.092-07:00Anonymous, I don't have the money for solar pa...Anonymous, I don't have the money for solar panels, wind generators or even a regular generator. Nor am I likely to invest in physical gold. But I have been prepping in terms of emergency survival.<br /><br />I've got propane heaters and cook stoves, battery-run radios and lights, lanterns, candles, blankets, etc. I also got a friend to teach me food canning, and I grow vegetable plants in pots on my deck. (I'm not physically able to do regular gardening.)<br /><br />Now as to other survival skills, I know how to spin, weave and dye wool, plus knit and crochet, so I could make my own clothes, but let me tell you, it's a lot of work. So is canning. Going back to the old pioneer ways is something not everyone will be willing to do. They're more likely to just steal what they want.<br /><br />The only reason civilization isn't falling apart faster is that governments are supplying food stamps, disability, social security, school lunches, unemployment, etc. The minute this stuff is cut back because of austerity, you will see TSHTF.sharonsjnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-34058019910278994322012-07-10T07:56:45.539-07:002012-07-10T07:56:45.539-07:00The last comment by Anonymous on July 9th makes se...The last comment by Anonymous on July 9th makes sense, though I can't gauge the speed of the political transition in the US. But if its in a fascist direction, what I find alarming is the global reach of the American government. Nowhere may be safe.Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-13329800187148080682012-07-09T22:43:35.945-07:002012-07-09T22:43:35.945-07:00A few points that I don't see addressed on eit...A few points that I don't see addressed on either this blog or the survival/prepper blogs.<br /><br />1) alternative energy systems (e.g. solar panels, wind generators) feed into battery banks. The life span of a battery bank is approximately 5 years/500 moderately depleted cycles.<br />Aside from the problematic nickel/Iron "Edison" batteries, one can't plan on long term 12 volt power being available. Darn, that rather limits an semblance of modern life.<br /><br />2) Politics. This collapse isn't happening in a political vacuum. The U.S. is fast becoming a fascist police state so as to protect & support the bankster elite & its minions. Likely it simply will not be possible to live undisturbed by government goons & cronies no matter how far off grid one is (the drones will find you and the tax collectors/regulators will show up). True, government might be hard pressed to muster the resources to maintain its former empire, but rest assured the core will squeeze the very last drop of blood from the periphery before it accepts any loss of control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-34072034868709560122012-07-05T04:58:12.124-07:002012-07-05T04:58:12.124-07:00I'm about to reread Anathem again. Probably t...I'm about to reread Anathem again. Probably the finest speculative fiction written in the last decade.<br /><br />The medieval village seems to be the best model for the future that we have right now. Most villages were built around sustainable food production (though the concept was not in mind at the time), with perhaps one or two specialized industries represented (cloth making, for example). Trade was common and widespread, and few villages were truly self-sufficient in terms of higher material needs. <br /><br />I think some sort of monastery model will become the center of learning again -- the intense dedication to knowledge is an industry unto itself, but one with a value that is not necessarily comprehensible to the average person (which is why it's usually a sheltered and disciplined environment), although it should be remembered that many monasteries were relatively open in their dealings with the wider world, including owning considerable lands.<br /><br />When I hear "interesting," I'm often reminded of Fight Club and the "single serving friend" concept. Interesting to me implies an incorrect filtering of information, where all information becomes interesting, without regard to meaning or substance. "Oh, wow, you lost 300 lbs! How interesting!" What Sue posted, in contrast, is genuinely interesting and useful, not trivial. When we see the world through a lens of apparently unlimited energy and leisure, we can afford to take in everything, without regard to meaning, because it has no bearing on our existence.Leibowitz Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-63894110311947038872012-07-05T04:32:29.412-07:002012-07-05T04:32:29.412-07:00What has always been interesting in the contrast b...What has always been interesting in the contrast between America and England (and I suppose most of Europe) was that America was largely built in a time when transportation was beginning to be more powerful and far-ranging. Obviously, the area of the original colonies is a little different, but even there, you see the mindset of unlimited space and growth at work (by 1628, for example, population was already remarkably widespread in Virginia as the American Indians were pushed back). <br /><br />Life will eventually find an equilibrium after collapse, of course. The question is what form does it take and how far things fall before then. The transition period will be telling and difficult, as people are forced to make drastic changes like retrofitting modern buildings to support electricity-free living (consider not only no light, but also no running water). <br /><br />The "atomic lifestyle" and "nuclear family" is going to also be gone, as they were only a product of exponential resource use. People will go back to being part of a community, as survival will be very difficult otherwise.<br /><br />The adaption to this type of lifestyle is not going to be a peaceful transition (as in not easy or fun, not necessarily widely violent). One of the things that will be first to go in this change is the accumulated learning of the species over the last couple of thousand years -- too much of our information is now on electronic media and most people have lost any kind of historical sense, which is why it is essential to preserve knowledge now for when the dust settles.Leibowitz Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-45760614707607809402012-07-05T02:21:36.177-07:002012-07-05T02:21:36.177-07:00I just got back from a trip to Great Britain and t...I just got back from a trip to Great Britain and there is much to learn about downshifting in an older culture. The way of life in a pre-industrial society is well preserved and remnants of it continue in modern society there. You have practical examples in the architecture, the house boats traveling the rivers with locks systems, how small towns are physically organized, etc.<br /><br />Yes, international travel makes a lousy carbon footprint but it can be an amazing educational experience. After all, Britain was a functioning society in the "dark ages". You can also see the very beginnings of the industrial age and see how they fit the pieces together - things that were beneficial and other things that unleashed unintended consequences. They knew the power of a simple steam engine in transportation and production. These are things we need to understand.<br /><br />Plus, in the act of traveling you open yourself up to new possibilities. You see that folks do things differently than our country, and it works out! It is good practice in flexibility and adaptation. And you get to depend on the kindness of strangers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-4567577787442227212012-07-03T07:34:03.577-07:002012-07-03T07:34:03.577-07:00Read Anathem for the third time at the beginning o...Read Anathem for the third time at the beginning of the year - would be nice to live in the mathic world. I have a place that may work as a monastery/work-shop.<br /><br />We need many more models to be able to work from. Stephenson is probably the 'go to' dude for Science Fiction - but there are some other that play with time very well. It almost seems like we have access to past time periods (via remote viewing - in a very different form than what most people think RV is?)<br /><br />there are a lot of interesting slines out there who have stories to tell - i wish to hear none of them. I like sue's theory - come sail away. Just think if a 13 year old had a chance to make it to sue's 'pirate' sailing school as a middle school/high school/lifestyle commitment. Camps based on adventure - with a real share of the booty (and risk). <br />dagmar was the pirate that came to mind, swashbuckling and all. I wonder how we could turn the common idiocy into absolute fantasy. Beats a trip to Euro-less Europe.<br /><br />n' docDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11361304171981838568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-83325105812457405162012-07-02T13:44:25.948-07:002012-07-02T13:44:25.948-07:00I think I'm speechless for the first time sinc...I think I'm speechless for the first time since I started this blog.Leibowitz Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-86060660864198391802012-07-02T13:40:45.760-07:002012-07-02T13:40:45.760-07:00Yeah. I think there are a decent number of people...Yeah. I think there are a decent number of people who are living in that one last gap, fin de siecle type of mindset. Every meal tastes a little bit better when you know that you may well never been in that place again. After all, people make up a bucket list when they think they're going to die (at least in the movies). What kind of bucket list do we have when we think our civilization is going to die? <br /><br />I think you'll be safe about getting back home. If not, I'd migrate my way to Ireland. :)Leibowitz Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-44462319934376245582012-07-02T13:36:12.346-07:002012-07-02T13:36:12.346-07:00I have been meaning to address water-borne transpo...I have been meaning to address water-borne transportation for some time. I'm amused to be reminded that the original "intermodal transportation" was a guy offloading crates and barrels from a barge onto a horse-drawn wagon.<br /><br />Water itself is an easy medium to traverse in some ways, and people have done their level best to use it as much as possible. When wind and muscle are the only practical option, they'll do so again. <br /><br />Canoes were popular in my neck of the woods for quite a few centuries now and are still popular exercise and recreation. I see them for sale all over the place, people who buy them with good intentions and then don't feel like using them. These days, they'd probably go for pennies on the dollar.Leibowitz Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-91979855917691282712012-07-02T13:31:05.617-07:002012-07-02T13:31:05.617-07:00I feel the need to put my speelycaptor in the jeej...I feel the need to put my speelycaptor in the jeejah and take a drives around, documenting the lives of the slines. ;) <br /><br />The implication has always been that the Dark Age is a time of anti-learning, but the point that people forget is the difference between the quantitative and the qualitative, or the empirical and the rational. Empiricism is energy-dependent, but rationality is bounded only by literally our mind and imagination. If we can process information, we can diassemble and reassemble it. <br /><br />Referring my first paragraph, I thought that Anathem was a brilliant work, not simply for the story, but because it was a defense of the practice of rationalism, not just rationalism itself. We may at some point lack the tools of scientific research, being denied them or simply losing them, but we don't need to revert intellectually, or even stand still.Leibowitz Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420328289777540352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-28310925400264899532012-07-02T12:07:49.883-07:002012-07-02T12:07:49.883-07:00Sorry Leibowitz Society, but you haven't convi...Sorry Leibowitz Society, but you haven't convinced Bruce to forgo his stuff-white-people-like trip to Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-72402215241018520372012-07-02T10:46:15.922-07:002012-07-02T10:46:15.922-07:00I agree with most of this, however as someone who ...I agree with most of this, however as someone who is planning a European vacation this summer, I wanted to say it's a "this might be my last chance to see these places as they are, pre-collapse-ish," sort of thing.<br /><br />I'm just hoping that the world remains propped up in the barely-stable anti-foundations of widespread illusions that have sustained it for the past decade or so, at least long enough to get back home... :-)<br /><br />BruceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-57924392442699048082012-07-02T08:05:51.399-07:002012-07-02T08:05:51.399-07:00Interesting comments about organized sports! Obvio...Interesting comments about organized sports! Obviously there were organized sports in Greek and Roman times, (the latter sometimes very rough sports!), and mostly for the enjoyment of the elites. Even after that, it was largely sports that were spin-off of war and important commercial activities: including transportation - horse sports, sailing and rowing.<br /><br />I highly recommend rowing and sailing as recreations. If you live near water, put your kids into sailing camp. (Especially the girls. The last thing we all need are more timid "pink princesses" with no skills and a fear of physical activity.)<br /><br />As a young woman I was intensely sceptical of organized sports - they all seemed pointless. A week at a community subsidized sailing camp got me hooked for life, though. (And you meet such interesting "characters" all of whom can actually make things and have travelled widely. Nothing like a cruising sailor for self-reliance...)<br /><br />Then I discovered rowing at age 50. The aspects that used to be called "character building" are in fact true, ability to cheerfully suffer discomfort (rain, heat, cold, pain), being reliable - to keep coming back to enable your team mates to row. And it's great exercise.<br /><br />I imagine that in the future, the so-called "forwarding trade" will arise again - the storing and transfer of goods from one type of transportation to another, water to cart, sailing vessel to canoe or horse pack, the logistics of past generations. <br /><br />The skills of navigation, piloting, chandlery, rope-making, rigging, boat making in general will all come back in demand. In the meantime, one can cater to the tastes of the elite recreational sailing and boating types and make a good living. Shipwright may be a dying trade, but it is a lucrative one...<br /><br />There are free or cheap courses with many rowing clubs (including dragon boat racing) and with the US and Canadian Power and Sail Squadrons that can get anyone started. And you can learn to swim with community programs in many places...you do live near navigable water, don't you?So sue mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02329062028532928077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702659934448838326.post-76313605534205076622012-07-02T06:59:56.682-07:002012-07-02T06:59:56.682-07:00when you finish your downshift and look up, you wi...when you finish your downshift and look up, you will find yourself at the place that i call the muddle in the middle. we live in a quantum mechanical world and downshifting is a linear solution. i didn't understand this either until i did the work to build Existence - which is a guiding path - a play-by-life game of downshifting.<br /><br />Once i finished the theory, wrote the website and the book and got to the experiment of application, i realized that the surrounding humans were all pleased to look at what i had done and all accept credit for the little pieces that they helped to refine - but otherwise business as usual. I needed to self-publish and play the game one against many.<br /><br />After i downshifted, then i howdt shifted. i learned that there is no way to get there from here, we need a new weigh. we need a different game based on a new model. the new model is quantum mechanics and i am currently working on falling up. it is a different approach and i am creatively measuring the items i need to tell me whether it works or not. You are invited to play. (If we measure performance like sports do, we have a working tool for a meritocracy already at hand)<br /><br />To measure your score - go to the google analytics page of your blog - then go to stats. enjoy yourself looking around - there are some interesting pictures. Count the number of comments that you had this year from January to the end of June. This is a number that i use to measure. Also - where do your readers come from? top five.<br /><br />You can also give me the post counts - track them on a daily basis. Use a table - today - yesterday - month - historical - add one for time - use the military clock and record. I started measurement at the Zone in March - i have some very interesting analysis which is going into my book, as opposed to coming out at the zone.<br /><br />wow - i didn't mean to use a lot of your space, but this is the new media Howdtside Da Baax - we have to cross promote the thinking people and their words. JHK has the standard for reflectory participation right now, but that comes and goes depending on the relevance of what we have to say.<br /><br />thanks for pleighing my weigh. If my numbers are to be believed from the first runs, then the period for change will be an instant, not a long drawn out run. But keep thinking about the manifestations of the run, and it becomes self-fulfilling prophesy. We live in whatever whirled we choose to live - i like my world a lot right now.<br /><br />namaste' doc<br /><br />PS - will cross-post at the Zone - let's think about cooperative competition.Dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11361304171981838568noreply@blogger.com